好萊塢的女性問題 聽聽布蘭切特們怎麼說

Carol, Laurel, Jules, Therese, Maud. These are just a few of the lead characters in a fall season that is by all accounts a big one for female-driven movies.

卡羅爾、勞瑞爾、朱爾斯、塞萊斯、莫德。這些僅僅是今年秋天出現在大屏幕上的女性主角中的一小部分，看起來這毫無疑問是由女性唱主角的一季。

“Freeheld,” based on a documentary, stars Julianne Moore as the terminally ill New Jersey police detective Laurel Hester, who becomes an advocate for gay rights when government officials prevent her from assigning her pension benefits to her domestic partner (played by Ellen Page). Based on a Patricia Highsmith novel, “Carol” is a 1950s melodrama with Cate Blanchett as the married title character and Rooney Mara as her lover, Therese, that has already won accolades at Cannes. “Suffragette” tells the little-known story of the militant women’s emancipation movement in England, directed and written by women, with Carey Mulligan as Maud, a foot soldier in the fight. “The Intern,” directed by Nancy Meyers, follows Jules (Anne Hathaway), an Internet entrepreneur struggling to manage her company’s success with the help of an intern (Robert De Niro) who’s a senior citizen.

《被拒人生》(Freeheld)根據紀錄片改編，由朱麗安·摩爾(Julianne Moore)主演，講述癌症末期的新澤西州女警官勞瑞爾·海斯特(Laurel Hester)的故事，政府官員拒絕她將退休津貼轉讓給同性伴侶（艾倫·佩吉[Ellen Page]飾演），於是她成了同性戀權利的維權者。《卡羅爾》(Carol)是一部根據派翠西亞·海史密斯(Patricia Highsmith)的小說改編的傳奇劇情片，發生在20世紀50年代，凱特·布蘭切特(Cate Blanchett)飾演已婚的主角卡羅爾，魯妮·瑪拉(Rooney Mara)飾演她的情人特蕾絲(Therese)，該片在戛納電影節上備受好評。《婦女參政論者》(Suffragette)講述了英格蘭激進的女性運動中一個罕爲人知的故事，導演和編劇都是女性，凱瑞·穆里根(Carey Mulligan)飾演鬥爭中的先鋒莫德。南希·邁耶斯(Nancy Meyers)執導的《實習生》(Nacy Meyers)講述朱爾斯（安妮·海瑟薇[Anne Hathaway]飾）的故事，她是一個互聯網公司老闆，在年老的實習生（羅伯特·德尼羅[Robert De Niro]飾）幫助下帶領公司取得成功。

And there are more — “Brooklyn,” “Truth” and “Sisters,” to name a few. All are garnering attention, some are even the subject of Oscar talk, and yet their very existence is still a rarity in Hollywood.

此外還有其他一些，諸如《布魯克林》(Brooklyn)、《真相》(Truth)和《姐妹》(Sisters)。它們都獲得了一定關注，有些甚至有獲得奧斯卡獎的可能，然而它們在好萊塢仍然屬於異數。

From 2007 through 2014, women made up only 30.2 percent of all speaking or named characters in the 100 top-grossing fictional films distributed in the United States, according to a report released in August by the University of Southern California. Only 19.9 percent of female characters were 40 to 64 years old. Only 1.9 percent of the movies were directed by women. And the numbers for minority women are even worse.

南加利福尼亞大學今年8月公佈的一項報告表明，從2007年到2014年，在美國票房居前100位的影片中，女性角色只佔有名字或有臺詞的角色的30.2%。只有19.9%的女性角色在40歲到64歲之間。只有1.9%的電影是由女人執導的。少數族裔女性的統計數據就更糟。

The movie industry is “failing women,” Manohla Dargis of The Times has said.

電影工業正在“挫敗女人”，時報影評人曼諾拉·達吉斯(Manohla Dargis)寫道。

Is this fall’s crop an exception or a possible sign of a shift afoot? Certainly there are no major films built around women of color on the horizon. So we asked actresses, writers and directors (including a few men) from forthcoming films about what’s changed, what needs to change and how. They didn’t always agree, and the subject won’t be settled anytime soon.

今秋的這批影片是例外，抑或是轉變的徵兆？顯然，目前沒有任何重要影片是圍繞有色人種女性建立的。所以我們採訪了一些參與上述即將上映的影片中的女演員、編劇和導演（包括部分男性），請他們回答關於目前有何改變、有什麼需要改變，以及如何改變等問題。他們意見並不完全一致，這個問題也無法很快得到解決。

Here are excerpts from those conversations:

下面是對話節選：

Are women in Hollywood unfairly denied opportunities to act, direct, write and produce?

在好萊塢，女性是否受到了不公正的待遇，被剝奪了演出、導演、寫作和製作的機會？

JULIANNE MOORE I’ve had a lot of luck in my career and I’ve worked with a lot of really wonderful directors, so I can’t complain. When people start putting this on the entertainment business, I’m like, “Wait a minute, this is endemic to our culture at large.” [However,] sometimes I read a script and there’s only one female in it. That’s not what my world looks like. I have days where the only men I see are my husband and my teenage son, but the rest of the day, I go to my yoga class, I see a female friend for lunch, I talk to my female manager on the phone. So how is that even possible?

朱麗安·摩爾：我很幸運，在事業生涯中能與那麼多優秀的導演合作，所以我不能抱怨什麼。每當人們提出娛樂業內存在這樣的問題，我總會說：“等一下，這是我們整個文化中的通病。”（不過）有時候我讀某些劇本，發現裏面只有一個女性角色。這不是我的世界真實的樣子。有時候，我確實每天只能看到我丈夫和我十幾歲的兒子，但大多數日子裏，我去上瑜伽課、我去和女朋友吃午飯、我和我的女經紀人在電話裏談事情。所以只有一個女人這怎麼可能？

CATE BLANCHETT I do think there’s a sense in the industry, and in most industries, that a woman can’t screw up. Look at the number of second-time male directors: If for some reason their film doesn’t do well, in eight to 12 months they’re back in there again, someone backs them. It’s always on the marketing schedule that a woman has directed the film, which on one hand you want to celebrate, but on the other does put a remarkable amount of pressure on, is it going to work? So the numbers people go into it with their arms slightly crossed, and I think that has an impact on the courage of a woman’s creative expression.

凱特·布蘭切特：我確實認爲，這個行業，乃至大多數行業裏都有這樣一種意識，那就是女人不能失敗。看看有多少東山再起的男導演吧：如果出於什麼原因，他們的電影沒拍好，八個月到12個月之內他們就會捲土重來，總有人支持他們。在市場營銷計劃裏，總有女人執導的電影，一方面你應該爲此慶祝，但是另一方面，也很有壓力，這部片子能成功嗎？所以負責搞數字統計的人都有點持懷疑態度，我覺得這會影響女人搞創作的勇氣。

ELLEN PAGE Absolutely, women and all minorities [are denied opportunities], African-American men, African-American women, trans men, trans women, the list goes on.

艾倫·佩奇：沒錯，女人和各種少數羣體（機會都很少），非裔美國男人、非裔美國女人、變性男人、變性女人，這個名單還很長。

MICHAEL SHANNON, CO-STAR, “FREEHELD” They say it’s harder for women in this business, and maybe there is a narrower window of opportunity, but I think it’s a hard life for anybody. I know a lot of guys who are sitting there with their thumbs up their butts. It’s hard, but some of the most exciting actors right now are women. I’ve worked with a lot of really strong women, Jessica Chastain, Julie, Ellen.

邁克爾·珊農(Michael Shannon)，《被拒人生》主演之一：他們說女人在這個行業裏的處境變得更加艱難了，或許她們的機會變得更少了，但我想所有人的生活都很艱難。我認識很多懷才不遇的傢伙。這很困難。但是現在有些最棒的演員確實是女人。我和很多很棒的女人共事過：傑西卡·查斯坦(Jessica Chastain)、朱麗、艾倫。

ABI MORGAN, SCREENWRITER, “SUFFRAGETTE” When the Sony hacking scandal revealed that there is huge disparity in pay for women, it made me question why don’t I get offered those action movies.

艾比·摩根(Abi Morgan)，《婦女參政論者》編劇：索尼黑客醜聞暴露出男女薪酬的巨大懸殊，這讓我質疑，我爲什麼不能得到編寫那些動作片劇本的機會。

ANNE HATHAWAY I’ve for many years tried to tell myself I wasn’t treated differently because I was a woman. And I just thought maybe if I say these things they will be true. I wish they were, but they’re not.

安妮·海瑟薇：多年來我一直告訴自己，我沒有因爲自己是女人而受到特殊對待。我想也許我一直這麼說，這樣的事就能成真。我希望這是真的，但並不是。

Can women be unlikable on screen?

銀幕上的女性形象可以是"不可愛"的嗎？

MOORE I think there is a time in a person’s life, probably age 6, when they want to see stuff that is romanticized, but after that we’re ready for more complication.

摩爾：我覺得在一個人的一生中總有那麼一段時間，也許是六歲，他們會把世界浪漫化，但那之後他們就會變得複雜一點。

PHYLLIS NAGY, SCREENWRITER, “CAROL” There aren’t that many complex women on screen, and how depressing. If someone had asked me which Patricia Highsmith novel would you like to adapt, “The Price of Salt” [which became “Carol”] would not have been it, but I’m actually very glad, because it was actually a very radical novel about women. She presented two female characters who were utterly without guilt about their sexual choices. They are allowed to behave the way men would behave.

菲麗斯·奈吉(Phyllis Nagy)，《卡羅爾》編劇：銀幕上沒有太多複雜的女人，真是讓人沮喪。如果有人問我，你最想改編派翠西亞·海史密斯的哪一部小說，我不會說是《鹽的代價》（The Price of Salt，即《卡羅爾》原本），但我確實很高興改編了它，因爲它確實是關於女人的一部非常激進的小說。它呈現了兩個女性角色，對自己的性選擇完全沒有負罪感。她們可以表現得和男人完全不一樣。

NANCY MEYERS In [“The Intern”] we don’t really emphasize guilt. There’s been enough written about women’s guilt.

南希·邁耶斯：“（在《實習生》中），我們並不強調負罪感。關於女人的負罪感，已經有太多描寫了。”

RON NYSWANER, SCREENWRITER, “FREEHELD” Whenever I’m in a meeting and an executive says this particular moment makes her unlikable, I just draw a complete blank. Likability is not really something that interests me. What I care about is audience identification, that you connect to someone.

羅恩·內斯萬尼爾(Ron Nyswaner)，《被拒人生》編劇：每當開會的時候，有什麼高管說，某場戲讓女主人公顯得不可愛，我都會覺得無言以對。我對“可愛”並不感興趣，我只關心觀衆的認同，你能否觸動別人。

CAREY MULLIGAN I think of Cate Blanchett in “Blue Jasmine,” that character is so awful and so fascinating to watch, you don’t need to like her. It’s infuriated me when I have had conversations with male directors — and I would never in a million years name names — but I’ve questioned an edit, and I’ve been told, “Well you just don’t like her.” And I’m like, “Well you just don’t like people a lot, and if you don’t show their flaws, you don’t show them as real human beings, so stop trying to cut out the ugly bits.”

凱瑞·穆里根：我覺得凱特·布蘭切特在《藍色茉莉》(Blue Jasmine)裏的角色太棒了，太迷人了，你根本用不着去喜歡她。有時候和男導演交流讓我非常憤怒——這樣的時刻說也說不完——但是有一次我質問一個剪輯，得到的回答是：“這樣你就不會喜歡她”。我說，“那你就是根本不喜歡人類，如果不表現出他們的缺點，你就不能把他們還原成真實的人，所以別把醜陋的部分剪掉了。”

MOORE Audiences want to see real people. I know I do. [Laurel Hester’s domestic partner] would tell me these stories when I would go to visit her: Laurel was very bossy. And if you were to talk to anybody’s partner, you’d hear about the things they love about them and the things that drive them crazy.

摩爾：觀衆想看到真實的人。我知道我想。在我去探望她（勞瑞爾·海斯特的伴侶）的時候，她給我講了很多故事。勞瑞爾其實非常霸道。如果你想和別人聊他們的伴侶，你總能聽到他們心目中伴侶可愛的方面，還有伴侶讓他們抓狂的事情。

HATHAWAY So often when we see career women on screen, they’re unlikable. But Jules is all warmth and energy, really works hard and gets stuff done. And she is a young woman with a ton of responsibility and not a lot of life experience, so she’s making mistakes. I admired all of that.

海瑟薇：我們經常在銀幕上看到事業女性，她們並不可愛。但是朱爾斯是個溫暖活潑的人，她努力工作，把事情做好。她是個肩負重任的年輕女人，沒有多少生活經驗，所以她會犯錯。我喜歡她的全部。

Do you think the status for women in Hollywood is changing?

你認爲女性在好萊塢的地位正在發生改變嗎？

ROBERT DE NIRO There’s a slow process where the change comes, sometimes generationally. I do see that it’s happening, but it won’t happen overnight. Look at my career, I’ve worked with Penny [Marshall], Nancy.

羅伯特·德尼羅：改變來得非常緩慢，有時候需要幾代人。我看到這一切正在發生，但不會一夜之間就有徹底的改變。在我的事業生涯裏，我曾經和彭尼·馬歇爾(Penny Marshall)還有南希在一起工作。

PAGE We’re seeing changes especially in television. Look at “Orange Is the New Black,” a perfect example of an incredibly diverse cast with incredible actors, and I’m hoping that it’s becoming clear that people want to experience different stories and realities, whether it’s socio-economic, or racial, or sexual or gender identities.

佩奇：我們在電視上看到的變化尤其多。看看《女子監獄》(Orange Is the New Black)吧，它是一個完美的範例，角色完全是多樣化的，演員也很棒，我希望這一點能夠愈來愈清晰：人們希望體驗不同的故事和真實，不管是從社會經濟角度，還是從種族，抑或性向或性別角度。

MULLIGAN This is a great year for women. It’s nowhere near the number of roles that are available to men, but it does feel like a step in the right direction. Kristen Stewart or Jennifer Lawrence — people want to go and see these films with these really strong female characters at the helm, and you can’t deem them chick flicks anymore. So the audiences will go, but the industry hasn’t quite caught up yet. It’s stuck in a more sexist time.

穆里根：今年是女人的好年份。雖然女性角色還是遠遠不如男性角色多，但感覺確實是走在正確的方向上。克里斯汀·斯圖爾特(Kristen Stewart)和詹妮弗·勞倫斯(Jennifer Lawrence)——人們希望看到電影裏有真正強悍的女性角色處於主導地位，你不能再把這些片子當成小妞電影。所以觀衆會進步，但電影界還沒有真正捕捉到這個趨勢。它仍然陷在一個更加性別歧視的時代。

MEYERS Lately everyone is talking about [this issue], and that’s the best thing that could be happening. A friend of mine in her 50s just got her first chance to direct a movie; I don’t think that would have happened six months ago.

邁耶斯：最近，所有人都在討論這個話題，這就是最好的事情了。我的一個50多歲的女性朋友得到機會執導她的第一部電影，我想這在六個月之前還是根本不可能的。

HATHAWAY I don’t think I can say there is change in Hollywood, but this movie got made, so we have at least one example of it. I think you are starting to see interest in telling a broader range of stories. Whether that actually translates specifically to material gains, I’m not sure.

海瑟薇：我不覺得好萊塢有什麼大的改變，但這部電影拍出來了，所以我們至少有了一個典範。我覺得你們可以開始看到，講述題材更爲寬泛的故事，這是有利可圖的。不管它最後能不能變成切實的物質經濟利益，我不確定。

MORGAN Now you see someone like Donna Langley [the Universal chairwoman]. Not only are there very powerful producers but there are powerful actresses becoming producers, the Reese Witherspoons of this world, Sandra Bullocks.

摩根：現在你可以看到唐娜·蘭利（Donna Langley，環球影業的女主席）這樣的女人。不僅有大權在握的製片人，還有強勢的女演員成爲製片人，比如瑞茜·威瑟斯彭(Reese Witherspoons)，還有桑德拉·布洛克(Sandra Bullocks)

BLANCHETT Women who have been in the industry a long time are now producing themselves, like Angelina Jolie. She’s not waiting for roles to come to her. She’s proactively creating her own work. I think women get to a point where they can actually embrace the power, and that’s one of the biggest changes.

布蘭切特：在這個行業呆久了的女人現在都在給自己製片，比如安吉麗娜·朱莉(Angelina Jolie)。她不再等待角色降臨在自己頭上，而是主動出擊，給自己創造工作機會。我覺得女人現在可以去主動擁抱權力，這是最大的改變之一。

HATHAWAY I’m in awe of Nancy. I’m sure having a career in Hollywood over the past 30 years and being the smartest, funniest in the room and being a woman, maybe wasn’t the easiest, but she thrived throughout it.

海瑟薇：我很佩服南希。我敢肯定，在好萊塢摸爬滾打30年，成爲屋子裏最聰明，最風趣的人，同時又不失去女人的本色，肯定不是一件容易的事，但她做到了。

MULLIGAN [“Suffragette”] was a complete first in my career, working with that many women. We had a woman director, writer, producer, costume, makeup, a huge cast of incredible women. I’ve never experienced anything like it, really.

穆里根：我的事業生涯裏還是第一次拍《婦女參政論者》這樣的影片，和那麼多女人在一起工作。我們有女導演，編劇、製片、服裝、化妝都是女人，一大羣了不起的女人。我從來沒經歷過這樣的事情。

Talk about the economics of putting women front and center in films.

談談那些將女性推到最前面、作爲中心的電影的經濟效益。

BLANCHETT The films with women at their center are generally lower-budget, because there is lazy thinking. But if you look at those films, they’re passion projects. People lose confidence, because the traditional marketing numbers don’t add up to the progressive nature of the films.

布蘭切特：以女性爲核心的電影一般都是小成本製作的，因爲人們有惰性的觀點。但如果你好好看這些片子，會發現它們都是激情之作。人們對它們沒有信心，是因爲傳統市場統計數字並不把影片的進步本質考慮進去。

NYSWANER A woman lead in a film, it’s just very hard to get that film financed. Two women helps, because then you can get an Ellen Page and a Julianne Moore, but people really do have mathematical formulas in which numbers are assigned to these elements. They look at what sells around the world — now foreign sales are as important as domestic — and it’s really frustrating, because they add up those numbers, and two women often don’t equal one man. What you do then is find people like our financiers and producers, who don’t care, who don’t add up numbers; they just love the movie.

內斯萬尼爾：由女性撐起的影片是很難得到資金的。兩個女人會有幫助，因爲這樣你可以得到艾倫·佩奇和朱麗安·摩爾，但人們確實有特定的數學公式，爲各種元素賦予特定數值。他們在全球檢測銷售情況——現在海外票房和國內票房一樣重要了——這確實很讓人沮喪，因爲他們只是把數字加在一起，兩個女人通常小於一個男人。你要做的就是去尋找像我們的投資人和製片人這樣的人，他們不在乎這些東西，他們不是簡單地把數字加起來，他們是真心熱愛這部片子。

MOORE Traditionally it’s very difficult to make money with dramas. They don’t make as much money as comedy and action films, so that’s another reason [women] can get relegated to the sidelines. You can be a woman headlining a drama that [makes] $50 million and nobody is going to get that excited about it. But look at this summer, Melissa McCarthy with “Spy” and “Trainwreck” [with Amy Schumer] — those movies made a fortune and those women are comic geniuses. And so suddenly are we going to see more of that? Time will tell, but it’s really about money.

摩爾：傳統上，劇情片是很難賺錢的，不像喜劇和動作片那麼能賺錢，這也是女人經常充當副手的另一個原因。一個女人主演一部劇情片，可能只賺五千萬，沒人會對這個感興趣。但是看看今年夏天吧，梅麗莎·麥卡西(Melissa McCarthy)的《女間諜》(Spy)，還有艾米·舒默(Amy Schumer)的《生活殘骸》(Trainwreck)——這些影片都賺了錢，這些女人也都是喜劇天才。所以我們會一下子看到很多這種片子嗎？時間會告訴我們答案，但這確實和金錢有關。

NAGY Our industry is a little literal, so if a woman makes money doing a comedy, then we get 800 other similar comedies. What I really hope for a movie like “Carol” or other female-driven projects is that some of them make money, so we’ll see a spate of films that aren’t plot driven but are largely character based.

奈吉：我們的行業有點喜歡跟風，所以如果一個女人拍喜劇賺了錢，馬上就會出來800部類似的喜劇。所以我希望《卡羅爾》這樣的電影，或者其它由女性主導的片子能賺點錢，這樣我們就可以看到一大批不是由劇情推動，而是建立在角色性格基礎上的片子。

HATHAWAY The big question [with the forthcoming films] is, are they going to translate to box office success? One of the pressures of female-driven movies is, they have to perform. If they don’t, [the market might think] it’s not because the film didn’t work, it’s because it was about a woman.

海瑟薇：這些新片面臨一個大問題：它們能被轉化爲票房的成功嗎？女性主導的電影面臨的壓力就是，它們必須有良好的表現。如果表現不好，市場人員就會覺得：不是因爲這部電影不好，而是因爲它是拍女人的，所以不受歡迎。

In what other ways can Hollywood change?

對好萊塢來說，還有哪些途徑可以做出改變？

SARAH GAVRON, DIRECTOR, “SUFFRAGETTE” For me personally, I wish there were more role models. I didn’t dare put myself forward until I recognized there were women like Jane Campion, Mira Nair, who inspired me to dare to do it. So I’ll do everything I can.

莎拉·加芙隆(Sarah Gavron)，《婦女參政論者》導演：對於我個人來說，我希望能出現更多榜樣。我本來不敢把自己推向前去，直到看到簡·坎皮恩(Jane Campion)和米拉·奈爾(Mira Nair)這樣的女人，她們鼓舞了我的勇氣。所以我也要竭盡全力。

DE NIRO If it’s a movie that you wouldn’t necessarily associate with, say, a women director — say, an action film — I think a woman hired to do an action film could do just as well if not better than any of the male counterparts.

德尼羅：如果這是一部與你完全無關的電影，比如說，一個女導演，一部動作片——我覺得女人來導演動作片可以和男導演拍得一樣好，如果不是更好。

MORGAN Writing “Suffragette” has made me connect more to my own responsibilities as a screenwriter. How often have I asked a woman to take off her clothes and how often have I asked a man?

摩根：創作《婦女參政論者》讓我更加體會到了身爲編劇的責任。我有多經常讓女人在片中脫衣服，又有多經常讓男人脫衣服？

HATHAWAY I’m not looking to be an advocate for women in film. That being said, I do actively take an interest in not perpetuating stereotypes that hold women back.

海瑟薇：我並不指望成爲提升女性在電影中地位的倡導者。我說過，我只是努力不讓長期以來的刻板成見阻撓女性的腳步。

BLANCHETT When the director says you really need to be topless in this scene, I go, “Do I?” You have to fight back and claim the right to develop the character. Women need to empower themselves and claim even a character that’s written in a clichéd way. You don’t have to play it that way.

布蘭切特：每次導演說，你得在這場戲裏赤裸上身，我都會說：“真的嗎？”你得反擊，爭取權利，去發展自己的角色。女人需要爲自身賦權，甚至去努力爭取一個以陳舊方式寫出來的角色——到時候你不一定用同樣陳舊的方式去詮釋這個角色。

MOORE Vote with your money. If there’s something you don’t like, don’t go, don’t pay for it. And if there’s a female-driven movie out there that you want to see, buy a ticket. That’s really what makes a difference. My husband laughs at me, but I just won’t go see movies with only men in them. I just can’t bear it.

摩爾：用錢來投票吧。如果影片裏有什麼東西是你不喜歡的，那就不要去影院，不要花錢買票。如過你想看某部女性爲主導的影片，那就買票去看。這真的能夠造成影響。我丈夫嘲笑我，但我只是不想看只有男人的電影了，我受夠了。